Negro league renewed stats now included, will Hal adjust

I think the cards are available. For eg the Strat Card App shows Gibson's 43 card, with ballpark effects. But I think you are saying Strat doesn't want to add them. Because I'm looking at some nice Pop Lloyd cards with higher WAR than his currently available 1916 season.

I think the cards are available. For eg the Strat Card App shows Gibson's 43 card, with ballpark effects. But I think you are saying Strat doesn't want to add them. Because I'm looking at some nice Pop Lloyd cards with higher WAR than his currently available 1916 season.

I'm definitely saying that not all of the Negro League seasons are available, both per Strat and their card viewer. I'm not saying that any particular season or card isn't available, nor am I saying that Strat doesn't want to add the cards. They decide which Negro League cards they want to add to the set and when.

Re Pop Lloyd, his 1916 card was added with the 1916 Chicago American Giants, as part of the 8 all-time great NeL teams.

Just to be clear- I dont think charging people with racism is a good idea unless its really clear that it actually is about racism.
Andy for example, has been pretty consistent with his views on Sample Size all the way around - hes simply commenting on the current cards in question.
Its not even that I necessarily agree about not having a smaller sample size, and obviously racism is a very serious thing and happens quite a bit.
But Lets not throw it around to serve some other purpose.

Agree with Salty, Bill and Andy on the cards and other issues raised -- everyone is doing sincere and above reproach work on this. Absolutely. It's about getting quality cards with hopefully some decent sample sizes and not just some whimsy or fantasy-minded projections. Data drives it.

And, I'm not a big fan of the pre-1900 cards because they aren't an accurate presentation of what baseball would become in the 20th century – key rules were quite different – but there they are in the player sets. And I use them, of course, anything to win Ultimately, it's up to Strat how they want to do this in terms of the new NEL data and information.

This will be very interesting. Appreciate the dialog. Around the year 2000, I started reading about the Negro league ballpalyers. I took my son to several card shows, and spent time with Double Duty Radcliffe, he was a trip. Double Duty had a season pass to all White Sox games and you could see him holding court in his wheel chair by the box seats. Mr. Reinsdorf treated him like royalty.

I was playing with my strat board game and decided to create my own cards for about twenty Negro league ballpayers. I had them compete against the four HOF teams that Strat offered. I only had anecdotal evidence, I suppose I glorified some stats. I know I created an 11 mil card for Pop Lloyd. And Josh Gibson's card would probably be a $17 mil card. Anyway, with the cards I created they had a .500 record when I played against the HOF all time great cards. That was about right I guess. Barnstorming, the Black and Brown players did very well against the white players. Pop Lloyd out played Ty Cobb in a 24 game series in Cuba one off season. Cobb was so pissed he quit the team and left Cuba, Lol.

More two cents, Satchel and Smokey Joe Williams need much better cards.

Anyway, one afternoon, I called Strat to speak with customer service, during the conversation I mentioned the cards I created for the Negro leaguers. The gentelman was interested, I remember him telling me his name was Hal. I did not realize who I was talking to until years later. I did have some discussions with Scott Simkus, who actually did much research for Strat.

I am pro-Negro League ATG cards and not a big fan of pre-1900 cards also. No particular reason other than when I picture baseball in 1896 I imagine guys playing without gloves and guys coming out of the stands to play (as Bill James has documented). I just think it's dumb to have Josh Gibson as the all-time MLB leader in slugging pct when he never logged more than 302 plate appearances in a season. It does a disservice to players black and white who played full MLB seasons.

Remember when Strat put the NPB leagues into Strat and everyone raised hell and they were withdrawn. that's racist. I'd wager, given the very small percentage of their players who've played in MLB, they've been very successful. even before Ohtani becoming the highest paid. Ichiro holds the single season hit record.