HOF

I'm a "small Hall" guy. But Ichiro almost unanimous, and Beltran and Andruw Jones seemingly likely to get in made me really question why Kenny Lofton didn't even make it past the 1st ballot!

I saw something on Facebook where Kenny lofton has better numbers pretty much everywhere compared to Ichiro and he got like 4%. Not saying he’s better player but like you said almost unanimous vs 4% lol let’s get Kenny in

Yeah, no way

https://www.statmuse.com/mlb/ask/compar ... nny-lofton

It’s batting avg and hits. Offensively it’s lofton everywhere else Defense it’s ichiro but lofton wasn’t bad with the glove either.

Matt,

thanks for sharing that link and comparison

i would have expected it to be different, since Ichiro made it to 3000 hits

however, that shows how comparable, if not better, that Lofton was

I also looked up an old time CF HOFer, earl combes from famous murderers row....atlhough his peak seasons were better than Loftons,Combe's "lofty" (pun intended) run totals of course come from hitting in from of Ruth and Gehrig.....

I know stats change over decades and generations, not the stats per se, but what they mean...when Combes was inducted, he was likely a HOFer compared to other CF of his time...however, he almost assuredely benefited from playing for NY, it would arguable he might not have gotten in so easily had he played for Boston Braves

but, if Combe's is a HOFer (and he is), I would say Lofton is also....during Lofton's career, he was regularly seen as one of if not the top CF in his league many seasons

I would prefer him as a HOFer much more than one-dimensional harold baines....Lofton could hit, run, and defend...baines did one

The HOF is always going to be a bit wonky. I agree that Combs is a marginal HOF pick at CF, benefitting from his association with the Yankees. Lloyd Waner is marginal too, benefitting from his association with his brother Paul. And if Lloyd is in because of his brother, then why not Dom Dimaggio, because of his association with Joe? Dom is arguably a better player than Lloyd. Comparing WAR, Lloyd's is 29.8 while Dom's is 33.5, despite his missing 3 prime years to WW2, which likely would have brought him up to about 48 WAR. Dom also a marginal choice, but there is arguably a lack equity there.
But if Dom got in, a lot of people would complain about that.
Anyway, my own view is that the HOF is what it is. It's a very cool institution, but given human subjectivity and the fact that very different avenues of election have existed over the years, the HOF pool is just an inconsistent grouping of good to great players. And it's fun to talk and argue about who should or shouldn't be in.
For what it's worth, I think the BBWAA choices represent the top tier of HOF membership. In my view, the BBWAA didn't make a lot of glaring mistakes when it came to who they admitted. But, they did miss some worthy players, such as Arky Vaughan, Johnny Mize, Willie Wells and Turkey Stearnes, who came in via the Veterans Committee.
Now that the voting is public, we'll see a lot more players reaching or approaching 100% in the BBWAA elections.

I'd vote for Kenny Lofton, highly accomplished leadoff hitter and great CF defender. Long career of results, a bit frontloaded, doesn't matter -- a .299 BA and .372 OBP career-wise is plenty good.

I'd like to see more HOF respect given to leadoff hitters, small ball greats who had great gloves, especially those who did it in the more modern eras. Too much attention, it seems, on HR hitters.

The HOF is always going to be a bit wonky. I agree that Combs is a marginal HOF pick at CF, benefitting from his association with the Yankees. Lloyd Waner is marginal too, benefitting from his association with his brother Paul. And if Lloyd is in because of his brother, then why not Dom Dimaggio, because of his association with Joe? Dom is arguably a better player than Lloyd. Comparing WAR, Lloyd's is 29.8 while Dom's is 33.5, despite his missing 3 prime years to WW2, which likely would have brought him up to about 48 WAR. Dom also a marginal choice, but there is arguably a lack equity there.
But if Dom got in, a lot of people would complain about that.
Anyway, my own view is that the HOF is what it is. It's a very cool institution, but given human subjectivity and the fact that very different avenues of election have existed over the years, the HOF pool is just an inconsistent grouping of good to great players. And it's fun to talk and argue about who should or shouldn't be in.
For what it's worth, I think the BBWAA choices represent the top tier of HOF membership. In my view, the BBWAA didn't make a lot of glaring mistakes when it came to who they admitted. But, they did miss some worthy players, such as Arky Vaughan, Johnny Mize, Willie Wells and Turkey Stearnes, who came in via the Veterans Committee.
Now that the voting is public, we'll see a lot more players reaching or approaching 100% in the BBWAA elections.

very well said, spot on

Matt,

thanks for sharing that link and comparison

i would have expected it to be different, since Ichiro made it to 3000 hits

however, that shows how comparable, if not better, that Lofton was

I also looked up an old time CF HOFer, earl combes from famous murderers row....atlhough his peak seasons were better than Loftons,Combe's "lofty" (pun intended) run totals of course come from hitting in from of Ruth and Gehrig.....

I know stats change over decades and generations, not the stats per se, but what they mean...when Combes was inducted, he was likely a HOFer compared to other CF of his time...however, he almost assuredely benefited from playing for NY, it would arguable he might not have gotten in so easily had he played for Boston Braves

but, if Combe's is a HOFer (and he is), I would say Lofton is also....during Lofton's career, he was regularly seen as one of if not the top CF in his league many seasons

I would prefer him as a HOFer much more than one-dimensional harold baines....Lofton could hit, run, and defend...baines did one

Yeah Fred it surprised me also when I first saw it. I think the thing that hurts lofton the most is the era he played in. When he first came up there was the likes of Griffey and Puckett that were probably the two best centerfielders of the time. Then you had Andruw Jones and Jim Edmonds come up , great fielders like Torri Hunter etc. there was never a time I would say he was the clear no 1 in the game in centerfield at anything. Plus it was during the steroids time and the writers are very tough with a lot of players during that time in my opinion. I’d like to see him in. I think a lot of people would too.