can somebody please ...?

help me understand

https://365.strat-o-matic.com/game/playbyplay/474067/42

the designated closer Gaddis starts the ninth inning....he hadn't pitched at all in either of the two previous games....

he gives up ONE MEASLY WALK, and his fatigue rating self-destructs IN HALF ?...from F9 to F5 from ONE WALK ?….then 1 more hit finishes him off ?

so, completely rested, without having pitched recently, the only way he is allowed to get a save (complete a 3-out inning) is to have a COMPLETELY SPOTLESS and CLEAN INNING ????.....like every other closer in the world, he's not permitted to allow a base runner or two while getting the save ?…..he has to be perfect to stay in the game and not be removed ?…...what the heck kind of baseball is that ?????????????????????????????????????

Gaddis is not rated as a closer, so he fatigues as soon as he gives up a hit or a walk.

See below for explanation.

Reliever being brought into the game

When bringing a relief pitcher into the game in a closer situation ignore his Relief Endurance rating. Instead use his Closer Endurance rating to determine the number of outs he can record before he loses his effectiveness.

Once this number of outs have been recorded, the pitcher will lose his effectiveness as soon as he allows a hit or a walk. If a pitcher is rated 0, then he loses his effectiveness as soon as he allows a hit or a walk. When a pitcher loses his effectiveness, he has reached his POW.

If the pitcher being brought into the game in a closer situation has a Closer Endurance rating of "N", then he enters the game with the loss effectiveness penalty already in affect (he has reached his POW). For pitchers rated as a "N", this penalty is always in effect starting with the first batter they face in a closer situation.

What Lancebousley wrote is the rule that applies in strat and this is WHAT should be applied in the online game, but unfortunately, this is not how the online game was coded. In fact, the game engine doesn't distinguish between "no rating" and C0, just as John wrote: the engine acts as if both type of relievers have a C0 rating, and no reliever comes in the game automatically fatigued.

Consider these games:

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/ga ... 427257/551

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/ga ... 427257/512

Blevins clearly enters the game in a save mode (9th inning, 1-run lead), he has no closer rating, so he should entered the game as "fatigued", and yet he is NOT automatically fatigued (he finishes F9).

In fact, I've got many examples to show that the pitcher remains in full cylinders until he allows a hit or a walk. Another example, this one from Webb, who has no closer rating either.

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/ga ... 426946/413

He got a full inning at F9 despite having no closer rating.

In this next example, however, because Webb allows a walk, his rating immediately falls back to F5

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/ga ... 426946/373

(Notice that Duensing, who has no closer rating, relieves him, and gets the out, and finishes at F9)

What these examples show is that a reliever without a closer rating (or with a C0 rating) will not be recognized as fatigued (other than by regular rules) UNLESS he allows a hit or a walk (or expressed otherwise, the rating refers to the number of outs a reliever can go before BECOMING VULNERABLE TO being recognized as fatigued). Because their closer rating is 0, they are fatigued immediately after allowing something.

In contrast, a pitcher with, say, a C2 rating can expect to cash in at least 2 outs in the closer situation (as defined by SOM) before getting fatigued by allowing something. If the C2 closer gets two quick outs, his rating falls to 0, then he becomes immediately fatigued just like a C0 after allowing a hit or a walk. However, if the C2 closer starts the ninth inning in a closer situation and allows a hit or a walk to the first hitter, then he may get two outs while keeping his F9 rating until he allows something.

Two examples to illustrate what has just been written, with O'Day and Fields, both of whom have a closer rating of C2.

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/ga ... 427257/512 (Day turns fatigued after allowing a single after he cashed down his two outs)

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/ga ... 426946/762 (Fields remains fresh after allowing two singles and then registering his three outs (did not allow any single or walk after his two outs, hence he remained fresh).

Notice that Fields remained fresh after his second out (despite allowing two previous hits/singles). After his second out, his closer rating was down to zero, so he got into the vulnerability zone, but it was not enacted (he remained F9) because he didn't allow any hit or walk after that second out.

28.0 CLOSER RULE

This Super Advanced system encourages realistic use of relief pitchers, emphasizing the use of pitchers in late-inning save situations who were the real big-league closers.

Since 1992 (and for each of the oldtimer seasons Strat-O-Matic has issued since then) each reliever is given a second POW rating, call it "closer endurance." For example, a rating of "relief (2)/3" indicates a regular POW rating of 2 and a closer endurance rating of 3.

28.1 Closer ratings range from 0-6, with 6 being the big-league's most frequent and successful closers. If a relief pitcher is rated "N" for closer endurance, he should not be used as a closer.

28.2 Closer endurance is the duration, measured in number of outs, a pitcher can maintain his effectiveness in closer situations. In Strat-O-Matic, a "closer situation" is defined differently than a big-league save opportunity. Your pitcher will be in a "closer situation" whenever you have the lead in the 9th inning or later and the tying run is on base or at bat.

28.3 A pitcher may enter a game in a closer situation or a game he already has entered may suddenly become a closer situation. Here are some rules to govern both possibilities:

28.31 The closer rules do not affect the current game's starting pitchers, who always use their starter POW (even for starting pitchers who have ratings both as starters and relievers).

28.32 Each reliever enters the game using either his closer endurance (if the game is already a closer situation) or his regular POW rating (if the game is not currently a closer situation).

28.33 If the pitcher begins his appearance with his regular POW and the game becomes a closer situation, he changes to his closer endurance rating. At that time, reduce his closer endurance by the number of outs he has already recorded. This number cannot be reduced to lower than 0, unless the pitcher's closer endurance is "N".

28.34 Once a pitcher begins to use his closer endurance rating, that is his endurance for the remainder of his appearance, even if the score changes and the game no longer is a closer situation.

Example: A reliever enters the game in the bottom of the 9th inning with a 3-2 lead - a closer situation. The opposing team ties the score in the bottom of the 9th. In the top of the 10th, the pitcher's team scores four times. If the same pitcher remains in the game for the bottom of the 10th, he is still using his closer endurance rating to determine when he becomes fatigued.

28.35 The closer endurance rating is the number of outs the pitcher can record before becoming fatigued. Once this number has been reached, reducing his endurance rating to 0, he becomes fatigued as soon as he allows a hit or walk.

Example: A pitcher with a closer endurance rating of 0 will become fatigued as soon as he surrenders a hit or walk, while a pitcher with closer endurance of 6 can pitch two full innings without risking fatigue.

28.36 Any pitcher with a closer endurance rating of "N" is immediately considered fatigued with the first batter he faces in a closer situation.

28.37 As with regular POW, once a reliever becomes fatigued under the terms of the Closer Rule, out readings followed by dots become SINGLE** (all other baserunners advancing two bases).

28.38 When using the Closer Rule, also be sure to use the rule which limits a reliever's innings to his relief POW rating, plus 2. At that point, he automatically becomes fatigued

wow, thank you i would have never known this

is this different from ATG ?.....ive never experienced this before, and didn't know there was any difference

totally unexpected answer, but thank you so much

does that mean that Treinen and Kelly will both fatigue immediately also ?....the have the C0 Rating...while Gaddis had no rating at all (and I think you said no rating = 0 rating ?)

https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/10 ... 024/474067

https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/92 ... 024/474067

Yes, Treinen and Kelly would be the same, but I see you have taken care of the situation.

I think it is different in ATG, but I have never played in ATG, so someone else should answer that question.

all right, yes, I wasted some $$$ due to ignorance....i obviously would have never rostered almost 10 million in 3 RPs who cant give up a hit without being dinged......live and learn, thank you again for excellent input and knowledge, much appreciated