Having all been medicated, and now that we are "comliance numb", there is an expressed interest to do it all over again. Existing Shifting Sands for ATG III managers will be given first shot to "re-up". I will take (foolish) alternates. BUT BE WARNED.....if you have never done a SS league before:
If you enjoy smooth running drafts....WARNING...this league is NOT for you!
A few years ago, in a hallucinogenic state, I came up with the Shifting Sands theme.
Shifting Sands is not one theme but TWELVE COMBINED!
Here is how it works. Due to its complexity, the format must be a live draft (on Boards since Penn's site is gone). Unless otherwise limited by a theme, league will be DH 100M.
As each each person joins league sign up, he will add yet another theme to the league. The trick is that when you add your theme, it MUST be consistent with all then existing themes. After discussion/debate, I (as League KNISH/COMMISH) will make the determination.
Thus, expect pages and pages of chat and discussion on whether the themes mesh. This will serve to greatly reduce the available player pool and GREAT care must be taken during the draft process to avoid DQ'd players. YOU MUST ALSO BE COMMITTED TO READING MESSAGE BOARDS BECAUSE YOU WILL BE CHARGED WITH KNOWLEDGE OF ALL CHAT, LEAGE EMAIL, AND DECISIONS POSTED REGARDING SHIFTING SANDS.
Also, themes are likely to require in season comliance. Failure to comply results in fines imposed by league commish (like, Babe Ruth must sit for 2 series).
EXISTING SHIFTING SANDERS:
1 UncleNy
2 MemphisJohn
3 DoctorTax
4 Modmark
5 MunichMan
6 Wockenfuss/Foggy - IN FOR ANOTHER LEAGUE
7 He'sMeat
8 Big Mahon
9 Spicki17
10 Ranger
11 giddyup
12 MRBBW
Aleternates:
1)
2)
Once we have 12, I will post the order for adding themes (determined by draw of playing cards).
Good Luck, beware.
YIKES (AGAIN)!!! SHIFTING SANDS -- Dose #2
YIKES (AGAIN)!!! SHIFTING SANDS -- Dose #2
by FoggyOne » Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:41 pm
- FoggyOne
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm
By way of example
by FoggyOne » Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:48 pm
Here is the list of the current themes (subject to amendment and interpretation throughout the season):
100M DH LEAGUE; LIVE DRAFT: 20 ROUNDS; WAIVERS
1.Wockenfuss/FoggyOne - YOUR BATTING ORDERS MUST BE SET IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER (A to Z versus LHP and Z to A versus RHP). No exceptions, if you get an injury and make a replacement, you must reorder your line-up.
2. uncle ny/uncle ny - EACH STARTING POSITION MUST BE FROM A DIFFERENT DECADE. ie outfielders from the 20's, infielders from the 30's, starting pitchers from the 40's, relief pitchers from the 50's, and cathers from the 60's. Bench need not comply with the foregoing.
ALL OF YOUR SPS/RPS MUST BE IN THE SAME DECADE. THIS MEANS ONE OF THE FOLLOWING: (A) SAME DECADE AS SP, (B) SAME DEACADE AS RP, OR (C) A DECADE DISTINCT FROM SP AND RP. Decades: the decades must be distinct -- a different decade for each of SPs, RPs, IFs, OFs, and Cs. NOTE my post in summary re SP/RPs and position palyers in starting line-up who qualify at more than one type position (e.g., 1B/C). You could not have the 60s for both IF and OF.
IF YOU HAVE A STARTING POSITION PLAYER WHO QUALIFIES AT ANOTHER TYPE POSITION (EG, C/OF), THE DECADE IS THE POSITION WHERE HE WILL PLAY IN THE YOUR LINE-UP CARD ABSENT ANY INJURY. SO, YOUR “30S’ CATCHER COULD BE MOVED INTO STARTING LINE UP AT 1B OF “50’S” INFIELD IF YOU HAVE NO OTHER “50’S” 1B.
CATCHER IS NOT PART OF THE INFIELD for this purpose
YOUR JEWISH PLAYER IS EXEMPT FROM YOUR DECADE REQUIREMENT AND MAY NOT BE INCLUDED IN A “GODFATHER TRADE”
3. spicki17/spicki17 - "Lead Feet": no AA or AAA runners.
4. Doctor_Tax TN Lottery SP - Can only have 2 maximum SP that can pitch on 3 days rest, but you HAVE to have a .50 starter and he has to go every fifth day. THE 500K STARTER IS "DECADE EXEMPT"
5. memphisjohn - 2 of your SPs must be lefties
6. giddyup81/giddyup81 CT Lottery- you have to alternate picking AL and NL players during the draft.
AL/NL BASED ON YEAR IN WHICH THE SELECTED PLAYER’S CARD RELATES
7. MBBW This theme is to honor Buck along with the 35 in the hall listed here:
http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/lists/negro_leaguers.htm
There are two components to this theme:
1. Include a player that played in the negro leagues on your team(feasible? not sure with the other themes if there will be enough and work with the other themes) . YOU MAY NOT HAVE MORE THAN ONE OF SUCH PLAYERS ON YOUR TEAM AND YOUR NEGRO LEAGUER IS EXEMPT FROM YOUR DECADE REQUIREMENT AND MAY NOT BE INCLUDED IN A “GODFATHER TRADE” .
2. You need to have 25 "Buck O'Neil/Negro League" points on your team .
AT ALL TIMES
Points are earned as follows:
A. 1 point for every player on your roster whose last OR FIRST name begins with any letter in "Buck O'Neil". Throw in J, R and D(to honor Larry Doby and Jackie Robinson)
B. 1 point for every player who has a first name, last name or nickname that coincides with the name of any of the 35 in the Hall.
C. 1 point for every black player on your team(2 points if he played in the majors prior to 1954, 3 points if he played in the Negro leagues and 5 points if he played on the Kansas City Monarchs team at any point in his career).
D. 5 points if your team name is the team name of a team in any of the "negro leagues".
E. 5 points if your manager is one of the 35 Negro league HOFers.
F. 5 points for a post here or in league mail as to why you picked the team and player you chose.(No two teams can have the same name nor the same "manager". Choose either or both on this thread, first come first serve.
"Hammering" Hank Aaron
Ernie Banks
James "Cool Papa" Bell
Raymond Brown
Willar Brown
Roy Campanella
Oscar Charleston
Andrew Cooper
Ray Dandridge
Leon Day
Martin Dihigo
Larry Doby
Andrew "Rube" Foster
Willie H. Foster
Josh Gibson
Frank Grant
Pete Hill
Monte Irvin
William "Judy" Johnson
Buck Leonard
John Henry "Pop" Lloyd
Raleigh "Biz" Mackey
Willie Howard Mays
Jose Mendez
Satchel Paige
Cumberland "(expletive)" Posey (Unfortunate nickname - C - U - M)
Jackie Robinson
Joe "Bullett" Rogan
Louis Santop
Hilton Smith
Norman "Turkey" Stearnes
George "Mule" Suttles
Ben Taylor
Cristobal "Carlos" Torrienti
Willie Wells
Sol White
Joe "Smokey" Williams
Jud "Boojum" Wilson
8. Modmark - "Go Directly to Jail"! At the end of each week of play (after 21 games), the bottom three teams in the league in Winning % earn TWO "Go to Jail" cyber cards each. During the next week (following 21 games) these teams may play the card on an opponent upcoming that week, by stating via league mail that any opposing player of their choice must be BENCHED for the upcoming series. (EX-You have Ruth. I play the card on you the day of our series. Ruth has to sit in our series that night). ONLY position players may be benched (no pitchers). You may not play two GTJ cards on the same team in a given week. Teams with W% that rank from 4th-9th best earn ONE GTJ card for the upcoming week. Teams that rank in the top three in W% at the end of the week earn NO GTJ cards. Tie breaker in case of same W% will go to teams that have the worst Run Differential. GTJ cards may not be accumulated. You must use them in the upcoming week or lose them. You may notify an opponent you will face in the upcoming week as early as you want, but you must give your opponent a MINIMUM of 12 hours notification if you are playing a card on him. (So, notification no later than 9:59am EST of the day of your series
9. he's meat- you must have one of the yamulke wearing devotees on your team, and ONLY one.
KOUFAX P 60S
GREENBERG 1B 40
MOE BERG C '34
HARRY DANNING C '34
ERSKINE MAYER P '15
AL ROSEN 3B '54
ART SHAMSKY OF/1B 69
ROD CAREW 1B 79
STEVE YEAGER C 70S
DAVE ROBERTS RP 70S
MORRIE ARNOVICH OF 40S
PHIL WEINTRAUB 1B '34
HOLTZMAN P 70S
YOUR JEWISH PLAYER IS EXEMPT FROM YOUR DECADE REQUIREMENT AND MAY NOT BE INCLUDED IN A “GODFATHER TRADE”
10. Munich Man - IL
Iron Gloves - Must have at least 2 "4" rated defensive starters (not counting pitchers), one in the OF, one in the IF, AND no more than 2 "1" rated starters, one in the OF, one in the IF. BUT (and it's a big BUT) if you have no "1" rated fielders at ANY position, the "4" requirement is waived
11. bigmahon - NH
"The Godfather" - in other words, an offer you can't refuse. 3 times during the season, trade offers will be made that must be accepted. Here is the "logic": after games 39, 81 and 120, the team in 4th place in each division can propose a trade to the team in 1st place, the team in 3rd place can propose a trade to the team in 2nd place. These trades must conform to all normal trade guidelines, but do not necessarily have to conform to the various and sundry Shifting Sands rules EXCEPT THAT JEWISH PLAYERS MAY NOT BE INCLUDED IN THESE TRADES. NEGROLEAGUERS MAY NOT BE INCLUDED IN GODFATHER TRADES.. In other words, Team A may offer a trade to Team B that will leave Team B out of sync with the (NON-JEWISH---OR SHOULD I SAY GOY---AND NON NEGROLEAGUE???) rules. All trades must be accepted within 2 days (6 games) of the offer. Penalty for failure to accept trade within the timeframe: aggrieved team will chose one player to be dropped by offending team.
12. Ranger – the following stadiums must be used by these teams. In other words the same four stadiums will be used in each division.
1, 5, 9 must use the Fenway '67 UNCLE, MUNICHM, SPICKI17
2, 6, 10 must use League Park '34 MEMPHISJ, WOCKENFUSS, RANGER
3, 7, 11 must use Shibe Park '50 DOCTOR, MEAT, GIDDY
4. 8, 12 will use Candlestick '62 MODMARK, BIGM, MRBBW
EAST: UNCLE, MODMARK, MEAT, RANGER
CENTRAL: MEMHISJOHN, MUNICHM, BIGM, GIDDY
WEST: DOCTOR, WOCKENFUSS, SPICKI, MRBBBW
100M DH LEAGUE; LIVE DRAFT: 20 ROUNDS; WAIVERS
1.Wockenfuss/FoggyOne - YOUR BATTING ORDERS MUST BE SET IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER (A to Z versus LHP and Z to A versus RHP). No exceptions, if you get an injury and make a replacement, you must reorder your line-up.
2. uncle ny/uncle ny - EACH STARTING POSITION MUST BE FROM A DIFFERENT DECADE. ie outfielders from the 20's, infielders from the 30's, starting pitchers from the 40's, relief pitchers from the 50's, and cathers from the 60's. Bench need not comply with the foregoing.
ALL OF YOUR SPS/RPS MUST BE IN THE SAME DECADE. THIS MEANS ONE OF THE FOLLOWING: (A) SAME DECADE AS SP, (B) SAME DEACADE AS RP, OR (C) A DECADE DISTINCT FROM SP AND RP. Decades: the decades must be distinct -- a different decade for each of SPs, RPs, IFs, OFs, and Cs. NOTE my post in summary re SP/RPs and position palyers in starting line-up who qualify at more than one type position (e.g., 1B/C). You could not have the 60s for both IF and OF.
IF YOU HAVE A STARTING POSITION PLAYER WHO QUALIFIES AT ANOTHER TYPE POSITION (EG, C/OF), THE DECADE IS THE POSITION WHERE HE WILL PLAY IN THE YOUR LINE-UP CARD ABSENT ANY INJURY. SO, YOUR “30S’ CATCHER COULD BE MOVED INTO STARTING LINE UP AT 1B OF “50’S” INFIELD IF YOU HAVE NO OTHER “50’S” 1B.
CATCHER IS NOT PART OF THE INFIELD for this purpose
YOUR JEWISH PLAYER IS EXEMPT FROM YOUR DECADE REQUIREMENT AND MAY NOT BE INCLUDED IN A “GODFATHER TRADE”
3. spicki17/spicki17 - "Lead Feet": no AA or AAA runners.
4. Doctor_Tax TN Lottery SP - Can only have 2 maximum SP that can pitch on 3 days rest, but you HAVE to have a .50 starter and he has to go every fifth day. THE 500K STARTER IS "DECADE EXEMPT"
5. memphisjohn - 2 of your SPs must be lefties
6. giddyup81/giddyup81 CT Lottery- you have to alternate picking AL and NL players during the draft.
AL/NL BASED ON YEAR IN WHICH THE SELECTED PLAYER’S CARD RELATES
7. MBBW This theme is to honor Buck along with the 35 in the hall listed here:
http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/lists/negro_leaguers.htm
There are two components to this theme:
1. Include a player that played in the negro leagues on your team(feasible? not sure with the other themes if there will be enough and work with the other themes) . YOU MAY NOT HAVE MORE THAN ONE OF SUCH PLAYERS ON YOUR TEAM AND YOUR NEGRO LEAGUER IS EXEMPT FROM YOUR DECADE REQUIREMENT AND MAY NOT BE INCLUDED IN A “GODFATHER TRADE” .
2. You need to have 25 "Buck O'Neil/Negro League" points on your team .
AT ALL TIMES
Points are earned as follows:
A. 1 point for every player on your roster whose last OR FIRST name begins with any letter in "Buck O'Neil". Throw in J, R and D(to honor Larry Doby and Jackie Robinson)
B. 1 point for every player who has a first name, last name or nickname that coincides with the name of any of the 35 in the Hall.
C. 1 point for every black player on your team(2 points if he played in the majors prior to 1954, 3 points if he played in the Negro leagues and 5 points if he played on the Kansas City Monarchs team at any point in his career).
D. 5 points if your team name is the team name of a team in any of the "negro leagues".
E. 5 points if your manager is one of the 35 Negro league HOFers.
F. 5 points for a post here or in league mail as to why you picked the team and player you chose.(No two teams can have the same name nor the same "manager". Choose either or both on this thread, first come first serve.
"Hammering" Hank Aaron
Ernie Banks
James "Cool Papa" Bell
Raymond Brown
Willar Brown
Roy Campanella
Oscar Charleston
Andrew Cooper
Ray Dandridge
Leon Day
Martin Dihigo
Larry Doby
Andrew "Rube" Foster
Willie H. Foster
Josh Gibson
Frank Grant
Pete Hill
Monte Irvin
William "Judy" Johnson
Buck Leonard
John Henry "Pop" Lloyd
Raleigh "Biz" Mackey
Willie Howard Mays
Jose Mendez
Satchel Paige
Cumberland "(expletive)" Posey (Unfortunate nickname - C - U - M)
Jackie Robinson
Joe "Bullett" Rogan
Louis Santop
Hilton Smith
Norman "Turkey" Stearnes
George "Mule" Suttles
Ben Taylor
Cristobal "Carlos" Torrienti
Willie Wells
Sol White
Joe "Smokey" Williams
Jud "Boojum" Wilson
8. Modmark - "Go Directly to Jail"! At the end of each week of play (after 21 games), the bottom three teams in the league in Winning % earn TWO "Go to Jail" cyber cards each. During the next week (following 21 games) these teams may play the card on an opponent upcoming that week, by stating via league mail that any opposing player of their choice must be BENCHED for the upcoming series. (EX-You have Ruth. I play the card on you the day of our series. Ruth has to sit in our series that night). ONLY position players may be benched (no pitchers). You may not play two GTJ cards on the same team in a given week. Teams with W% that rank from 4th-9th best earn ONE GTJ card for the upcoming week. Teams that rank in the top three in W% at the end of the week earn NO GTJ cards. Tie breaker in case of same W% will go to teams that have the worst Run Differential. GTJ cards may not be accumulated. You must use them in the upcoming week or lose them. You may notify an opponent you will face in the upcoming week as early as you want, but you must give your opponent a MINIMUM of 12 hours notification if you are playing a card on him. (So, notification no later than 9:59am EST of the day of your series
9. he's meat- you must have one of the yamulke wearing devotees on your team, and ONLY one.
KOUFAX P 60S
GREENBERG 1B 40
MOE BERG C '34
HARRY DANNING C '34
ERSKINE MAYER P '15
AL ROSEN 3B '54
ART SHAMSKY OF/1B 69
ROD CAREW 1B 79
STEVE YEAGER C 70S
DAVE ROBERTS RP 70S
MORRIE ARNOVICH OF 40S
PHIL WEINTRAUB 1B '34
HOLTZMAN P 70S
YOUR JEWISH PLAYER IS EXEMPT FROM YOUR DECADE REQUIREMENT AND MAY NOT BE INCLUDED IN A “GODFATHER TRADE”
10. Munich Man - IL
Iron Gloves - Must have at least 2 "4" rated defensive starters (not counting pitchers), one in the OF, one in the IF, AND no more than 2 "1" rated starters, one in the OF, one in the IF. BUT (and it's a big BUT) if you have no "1" rated fielders at ANY position, the "4" requirement is waived
11. bigmahon - NH
"The Godfather" - in other words, an offer you can't refuse. 3 times during the season, trade offers will be made that must be accepted. Here is the "logic": after games 39, 81 and 120, the team in 4th place in each division can propose a trade to the team in 1st place, the team in 3rd place can propose a trade to the team in 2nd place. These trades must conform to all normal trade guidelines, but do not necessarily have to conform to the various and sundry Shifting Sands rules EXCEPT THAT JEWISH PLAYERS MAY NOT BE INCLUDED IN THESE TRADES. NEGROLEAGUERS MAY NOT BE INCLUDED IN GODFATHER TRADES.. In other words, Team A may offer a trade to Team B that will leave Team B out of sync with the (NON-JEWISH---OR SHOULD I SAY GOY---AND NON NEGROLEAGUE???) rules. All trades must be accepted within 2 days (6 games) of the offer. Penalty for failure to accept trade within the timeframe: aggrieved team will chose one player to be dropped by offending team.
12. Ranger – the following stadiums must be used by these teams. In other words the same four stadiums will be used in each division.
1, 5, 9 must use the Fenway '67 UNCLE, MUNICHM, SPICKI17
2, 6, 10 must use League Park '34 MEMPHISJ, WOCKENFUSS, RANGER
3, 7, 11 must use Shibe Park '50 DOCTOR, MEAT, GIDDY
4. 8, 12 will use Candlestick '62 MODMARK, BIGM, MRBBW
EAST: UNCLE, MODMARK, MEAT, RANGER
CENTRAL: MEMHISJOHN, MUNICHM, BIGM, GIDDY
WEST: DOCTOR, WOCKENFUSS, SPICKI, MRBBBW
- FoggyOne
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm
NEW THemes will be used
by FoggyOne » Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:49 pm
EXISTING SHIFTING SANDERS:
1 UncleNy
2 MemphisJohn
3 DoctorTax
4 Modmark
5 MunichMan
6 Wockenfuss/Foggy - IN FOR ANOTHER LEAGUE
7 He'sMeat
8 Big Mahon
9 Spicki17
10 Ranger
11 giddyup
12 MRBBW
Aleternates:
1)
2)
1 UncleNy
2 MemphisJohn
3 DoctorTax
4 Modmark
5 MunichMan
6 Wockenfuss/Foggy - IN FOR ANOTHER LEAGUE
7 He'sMeat
8 Big Mahon
9 Spicki17
10 Ranger
11 giddyup
12 MRBBW
Aleternates:
1)
2)
- FoggyOne
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm
by Munich_Man » Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:23 pm
Just a heads up, Major Deegan has made arrangements to take over the hosting and running of Penn's draft site. I know the initial file transfer and code exchange has already taken place, and the word is that a new draft site will be up within a week or two. Good news indeed! :D
Should make things easier.
(_)ß
Should make things easier.
(_)ß
- Munich_Man
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm
by Mr Baseball World » Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:50 pm
Easy and shifting sands just don't sound right in the same sentence.
I am in for another. May even roll out my theme tonight to scare the feint of heart away. :D
I am in for another. May even roll out my theme tonight to scare the feint of heart away. :D
- Mr Baseball World
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm
by FoggyOne » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:00 pm
EXISTING SHIFTING SANDERS:
1 UncleNy
2 MemphisJohn
3 DoctorTax
4 Modmark
5 MunichMan - IN
6 Wockenfuss/Foggy - IN FOR ANOTHER LEAGUE
7 He'sMeat
8 Big Mahon
9 Spicki17
10 Ranger
11 giddyup
12 MRBBW - IN
Aleternates:
1)
2)
1 UncleNy
2 MemphisJohn
3 DoctorTax
4 Modmark
5 MunichMan - IN
6 Wockenfuss/Foggy - IN FOR ANOTHER LEAGUE
7 He'sMeat
8 Big Mahon
9 Spicki17
10 Ranger
11 giddyup
12 MRBBW - IN
Aleternates:
1)
2)
- FoggyOne
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm
by STEPHENANDERSON 2 » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:37 pm
1 UncleNy
2 MemphisJohn
3 DoctorTax - In
4 Modmark
5 MunichMan - IN
6 Wockenfuss/Foggy - IN FOR ANOTHER LEAGUE
7 He'sMeat... im in for the insanity
8 Big Mahon
9 Spicki17
10 Ranger
11 giddyup
12 MRBBW - IN
With tax season upon me by the time this getts good and heated, the insanity will not even be noticed. Plus, I do not think I can get any worse then I am now.
2 MemphisJohn
3 DoctorTax - In
4 Modmark
5 MunichMan - IN
6 Wockenfuss/Foggy - IN FOR ANOTHER LEAGUE
7 He'sMeat... im in for the insanity
8 Big Mahon
9 Spicki17
10 Ranger
11 giddyup
12 MRBBW - IN
With tax season upon me by the time this getts good and heated, the insanity will not even be noticed. Plus, I do not think I can get any worse then I am now.
- STEPHENANDERSON 2
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm
by modmark46 » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:49 pm
1 UncleNy
2 MemphisJohn
3 DoctorTax - In
4 Modmark - IN (I must need my head examined)
5 MunichMan - IN
6 Wockenfuss/Foggy - IN FOR ANOTHER LEAGUE
7 He'sMeat... im in for the insanity
8 Big Mahon
9 Spicki17
10 Ranger
11 giddyup
12 MRBBW - IN
2 MemphisJohn
3 DoctorTax - In
4 Modmark - IN (I must need my head examined)
5 MunichMan - IN
6 Wockenfuss/Foggy - IN FOR ANOTHER LEAGUE
7 He'sMeat... im in for the insanity
8 Big Mahon
9 Spicki17
10 Ranger
11 giddyup
12 MRBBW - IN
- modmark46
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm
by memphisjohn » Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:37 pm
1 UncleNy
2 MemphisJohn - IN (...sane)
3 DoctorTax - In
4 Modmark - IN (I must need my head examined)
5 MunichMan - IN
6 Wockenfuss/Foggy - IN FOR ANOTHER LEAGUE
7 He'sMeat... im in for the insanity
8 Big Mahon
9 Spicki17
10 Ranger
11 giddyup
12 MRBBW - IN
2 MemphisJohn - IN (...sane)
3 DoctorTax - In
4 Modmark - IN (I must need my head examined)
5 MunichMan - IN
6 Wockenfuss/Foggy - IN FOR ANOTHER LEAGUE
7 He'sMeat... im in for the insanity
8 Big Mahon
9 Spicki17
10 Ranger
11 giddyup
12 MRBBW - IN
- memphisjohn
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm
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