Tell me I am crazy...please

[RICHARDMILTER]

I hope this works.

league site:
http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/stratomatic/team/team_other.html?user_id=120469

This is the league, check it out please. Since I last posted someone traded Reyes for Rollins(in a non salary cap league!!!), either someone does not have a clue, or someone is tanking!

[coyote303]

I followed this link as a disinterested outsider, posting once earlier. I wouldn't feel the need to apologize.

In the book "Gift of Fear," the author talks about how victims usually sense something wrong before they become victims, but they don't act. They dismiss what they see or sense. Or in many cases, they don't want to appear to be rude to the eventual perpetrator.

The problem is, of course, that the evidence here is circumstantial. However, I had a lawyer I knew explain such evidence to me once: "If you see rabbit tracks in the snow leading up to a rabbit hole, you can be pretty certain the rabbit went down the rabbit hole."

Fortunately, the "crime" you may be a victim of won't actually hurt you. However, I don't think you should apologize for speaking up. You're trying to be fair. I can assure you if there is collusion going on, they are trying to be anything but fair and would say anything to make you dismiss your concerns and instincts, and they would say anything to put you on the defensive, making you the bad guy.

Is there a chance it's all innocent? I suppose. So, state your concerns as you've already done, ask for an investigation from TSN, and then let it go. If nothing else comes of it, at least you've alerted the masses of the risk in joining a no-salary-cap league.

[RICHARDMILTER]

Coyote303 said:[quote:8e73862fb5]
The problem is, of course, that the evidence here is circumstantial. However, I had a lawyer I knew explain such evidence to me once: "If you see rabbit tracks in the snow leading up to a rabbit hole, you can be pretty certain the rabbit went down the rabbit hole."

Fortunately, the "crime" you may be a victim of won't actually hurt you. However, I don't think you should apologize for speaking up. You're trying to be fair. I can assure you if there is collusion going on, they are trying to be anything but fair and would say anything to make you dismiss your concerns and instincts, and they would say anything to put you on the defensive, making you the bad guy.[/quote:8e73862fb5]

Coyote 303,
Your comments are greatly appreciated by me! Maybe it is/was my paranoia, but there were too many ,"mistakes" for me not to question what was going on? But as you so wisely stated, the evidence is circumstantial. Thanks for your opinion as an outsider(of the league in question).

[Jake Squid]

Plausible deniability is a classic strategy used by perpetrators of crimes & insults. Men who grope women on subways, for example, rely on plausible deniability (there's so many people here, how do you know it was me? it was an accident. and so on.). The possible perpetrators here have plausible deniability on their side, but it is up to those who feel there may be something wrong to voice their concerns. At worst you'll be wrong and have to issue an apology (horrors!). OTOH, the more voices that speak up about this sort of thing, the less likely cheaters are to be able to get away with it.

I agree w/ Coyote303, there is no reason for you to apologize at this point.

[RICHARDMILTER]

Jake Squid,
I appreciate your comments!

[johnps]

Rmilt,

I work with TBoo and can steadfastly state that he does not have a cheating bone in his body. We are lucky that we have access at work and it appears he was online when an owner with limited SOM IQ made some bonehead drops. TBoo plays in vets league with me and some of the most experienced managers in SOM - Jack377, Splinter, ErrorMagnate, Natural Doc, E Mart, Odie Works and PML along with occasional appearances by Keyzick, bobby and Akindian. Tboo has done well as the freshmeat in these leagues, is well regarded by the vets and has learned the nuances of the game quickly.

He just showed me this thread and I felt compelled to defend his integrity. I see also, that you are based in Shaker Hts, Tboo and I work in downtown CTown, go Browns!

[keyzick]

I can confirm, have never even witnessed a hint of wrongdoing from TBoo.

I've been reading this thread for amusement when I have downtime at work, but have to admit it's uncomfortable to see someone's name hung out there as a "suspect". All I've seen and read about this seems on the up and up to me.

If something's wrong, by all means people should speak up. But this feels more like a witch-hunt...measuring a person's guilt or honesty by the way he responds in print?? Ridiculous.

TBoo - I'd have no issues playing in any leagues you're in.

johnps - I admire you sticking up for your buddy

I am jealous that you guys can access your teams from work though. I'm firewalled out of everything but these boards. :x

Best of luck in future leagues!

[KEVINEHLE]

I just read through the sea of comments. Here are my thoughts:

1. RMilter: hell of a nice guy....but very passionate and excitable! Richard is good for our game and site, but perhaps could reel in the emotions a tad. I think there are some unwarranted bad feelings that come about at times.

2. I rarely get into leagues where I'm not familiar with a majority of the owners. However, last year I decided to join a public league with no Salary limit because I had never been in one. Guess what?? There was collusion.....extreme collusion! It was easily proved and most of us requested to get out of the league and got a free credit for another league. In this case, two teams were in one division and one team traded several of his top players to the other team and then dropped them for cheap players! It was glaringly ridiculous.

My point is that there ARE cheaters around, but I think they are obvious to the long-timers on this site. The problem is trying to decipher between the "Bad" -but "honest" team owners who just don't know.....vs intentional cheating. Sometimes, if it looks like a chicken, smells likes a chicken, it just may "not" be a chicken! In my opinion, the situation here just looks like and smells like a chicken. I just happen to think these chickens are honest chickens.

Let me know if I lost anyone with my ridiculous analogy?! :wink:

Kev

[RICHARDMILTER]

Array 0113 said[quote:0f80aa09e4]I'm in the same league as the people involved, and having been in a league where there was outright collusion between two teams, I don't think that this activity qualifies. For several reasons.

First: If I was in collusion with another team, I wouldn't do the drop-and-pick-up risk; I would make a trade between the two teams. That's what happened in the league where the collusion took place. The fact that this league has no salary cap would seem to make trading easier, yet we have had to this point ZERO trades among the (so far) 96 transactions after the Waiver draft occured.

Second: it appears that Franklin Morales was dropped in a Waiver Claim for Jared Weaver, and that Bonds was dropped in a Waiver Claim for Delmon Young. Not the typical collusion tactic, for certain.

I say this with great certainty because all transactions in the Waiver Draft state that the player was either "dropped" or "picked up from waivers", while all transactions afterwards are either labeled "dropped" or "added".

In fact, having just checked the results of the waivers period (on our front office page), that is EXACTLY what happened. So the theory of collusion drops considerably, IMO.

BTW, Jamie Burke was dropped for AJ Pierzynski, and Mark Reynolds was dropped for Johnny Damon ... all in the waiver draft ... and these two were dropped before Bonds and Morales.

Unfortunately, the rhetoric has been ratched up a notch, both here and on the league message boards. What everyone needs to do is step back, take a deeeeep breath, and go back to the business of building the best team that they can with what is left in the FA pool, which is still the most viable option. Name-calling and verbal abuse take all the fun out of a league, and I plan to enjoy myself, collusion or not, mistakes by me or others, great or poor drafting and all!
[/quote:0f80aa09e4]

That was an incredible deal you pulled off, trading Reyes for Rollins. Nice move!

[RICHARDMILTER]

Can you believe someone( Array0113) traded Reyes for Rollins. That is a savvy GM!