Stupid HAL move helps lose a wildcard spot

[LMBombers]

Would you be complaining if that stupid move paid off and you made the playoffs? What if HAL made a move you wouldn't have and it worked. I don't see posts about those moves. :lol:

What I am saying is that we all would love for HAL to make all the moves we would have made if playing face-to-face with someone. Sometimes HAL does "funny" things. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. What makes it a little more palatable is knowing that he is making the same funny moves for both teams. You can try to limit his funny moves by using your settings like always checking "don't PH for" for both sides of your backup catcher. The only time your backup C will be in the game is when your starting C is injured or already PH for so you would not want HAL to PH for your backup C. Settings like this only makes sense.

[Ragnarokpc]

Yeah, if the move had been made when you were down and it was an all-or nothing moment it would have made more sense to me. That is flawed logic and is pretty bad, you should never have to deal with that. But . . . the game is what it is, hopefully the rest of us can learn from this and remember to check those "Do not pinch hit for . . ." boxes if we are down to our last player at a position. Sorry man.

[elpasopesos]

I agree with the others. I bet you had him set to pinch hit for both ways. You were actually telling HAL to pinch hit for him. You would feel differently had your PH blased a 3 run dinger to put you into the playoffs.

[gorshar]

In a case like this I don't think it should matter what PH settings were set for Pagnozzi. The fact is there wasn't another catcher available and that should be enough for HAL not to have inserted a PH under any conditions.

We can only make settings three games at a time anyway, so what happens if an injury whacks out a guy in the first game of the series? You're helpless then for the next two.

I'm well aware of bad calls and fluke plays being a part of life, but my complaint was and still is that this case reveals a real flaw in the computer logic that ought to be addressed. If there are no subs available at a particular position and your team has to take the field at least one more time, than HAL should be programmed not to insert PHs or otherwise pull out the last remaining player at a particular position.

That was and still is my complaint. This was not simply a bad manager decision, it was bad *programming*.

[LMBombers]

[quote:aab91a746b="gorshar"]In a case like this I don't think it should matter what PH settings were set for Pagnozzi. The fact is there wasn't another catcher available and that should be enough for HAL not to have inserted a PH under any conditions.[/quote:aab91a746b]

I dissagree. Lets say your backup catcher was marked to "avoid LHP" for example. Late in the game when you need to score a run your backup catcher is facing a LHP. HAL will look at your instructions and PH for your catcher. If he was marked as "don't PH for" then he probably would have been left in the game. Even if your catcher was not marked "avoid LH or RH pitchers" HAL could PH for him for a hitter he thought you would have a better chance to score a run with if he is not marked to avoid PH for. There are no special cases for last player of a certain position to not be removed from the game. If you only had one player that could play 1B for you on your roster that player could also be PH or PR run for or become injured. HAL does protect your last catcher by ignoring any injury occurance while your other catcher is injured. That doesn't mean that he couldn't be removed from the game for a runner or a hitter.

[quote:aab91a746b="gorshar"]We can only make settings three games at a time anyway, so what happens if an injury whacks out a guy in the first game of the series? You're helpless then for the next two.[/quote:aab91a746b]

This is not true either. When you utilize the lineup depth chart you get to tell HAL what player you want as a backup for each position vs a LHP or a RHP. If a starting player is injured in the first game of your series HAL will use your hand selected backup player for the remaining two games.

This game is not perfect but it is pretty darn good. Learn how to use your settings to better get the results you are looking for. Even if you have all of the settings set perfectly HAL will still sometimes make seemingly bonehead moves but these are greatly lessened when you use the settings to your advantage. By using all of the individual and team settings properly you could have a slight advantage over your opponent if they do not. Over the course of a season this could get you several more victories which could mean the difference of making the playoffs or watching from home.

Good Luck to you gorshar. 8-)

[elpasopesos]

I couldnt agree with the last post more. HAL can only do what you tell him to do. He doesnt look to see if there is another catcher available. This is wjy it is important to check your settings every series. Live and learn.

[gorshar]

[quote:debf3b962c]This is not true either. When you utilize the lineup depth chart you get to tell HAL what player you want as a backup for each position vs a LHP or a RHP. If a starting player is injured in the first game of your series HAL will use your hand selected backup player for the remaining two games. [/quote:debf3b962c]
That still doesn't address my point. Pagnozzi was the second catcher - there was no more depth at this position. I've utilized this chart, but in this case it makes no difference. There was Matt Nokes out with an injury and Pagnozzi behind him. All the depth charts in the world weren't going to bring me a third catcher where none existed. This isn't about HAL selecting the wrong back-up, it's about HAL pulling a player when there was no back-up.

[quote:debf3b962c] There are no special cases for last player of a certain position to not be removed from the game. If you only had one player that could play 1B for you on your roster that player could also be PH or PR run for or become injured. HAL does protect your last catcher by ignoring any injury occurance while your other catcher is injured. That doesn't mean that he couldn't be removed from the game for a runner or a hitter. [/quote:debf3b962c]
And there lies a flaw. If there is no player left in a certain position, HAL should not be removing the last player left. Really, how often in the real world would a manager yank his only catcher in a tie game in the top of the ninth for a marginal pinch hitter knowing that someone has to take the position in the bottom of the 9th? Injuries are different. But there is a difference between a player getting injured and a player being intentionally pulled from a game. Big difference. I have another team in another league starting the playoffs without a shortstop because both the starter and only sub got nailed with back to back injuries. But I'm not complaining about that because this replicates a real world possibility. But HAL pulling Pagnozzi is not a real world possibility, it's just plain nuts.

I understand HAL is always going to look for another run, but HAL should also be looking at the defense and pitching.

There have been a lot of complaints about how HAL has handled bullpens, and I think most of those complaints have been justified and the programmers here are apparently now dealing with this issue.

Maybe they also should be looking at PH substituting as well. Call me naive, but it seems like a simple programming code - don't pull the last player in a position for a pinch-hitter. And then perhaps give us a box to check to override it (though I can't imagine how many of us would check a boz allowing the removal of the last position player for a PH...)

[cummings2]

I'd like to see the box score before I comment much on this one.

However, the way I see it it was definately a gamble that HAL took in [u:bf7dc20516][b:bf7dc20516][i:bf7dc20516]trying to win the game[/i:bf7dc20516][/b:bf7dc20516][/u:bf7dc20516] let's keep in mind that a C-x roll has a 3/216 chances of occuring in other words 1.38%.

Pagozzi is W vs. RHP and Ward is N.

HAL was just trying to win it for you. It back fired, true. No question about that. Offensively and Defensively. -Ouchy

I understand your point is about no other catcher being available but it's not like the swap was for your SS or 2B or in the top of the 2nd Inn. There was a 1.38% chance this would happen... and it happened! Sometimes it's just bad luck.

In a weird way it's all part of the fun, hope you stick around to keep enjoying this pretty cool OL-Game gorshar.

All best of luck

C2

[gorshar]

Of course I'm sticking around.... I wouldn't waste my time complaining if I wasn't. I've played Strat (C&D, computer, and now this) off and on for 25 years...

Anyway... I guess my point (and frustration) is that decisions we make as managers should be about baseball opposed to trying to override and/or manipulate flaws in the game's computer code.

I shouldn't have to tell HAL not to pull my last catcher via the don't PH option, it should be a given.

And I understand the point about the 3/216 C-x roll, but also consider that a C5(+5)e25 is going to allow a ton of stolen bases as well as passed balls. In this particular game Ward as catcher not only got stung on an X roll but a subsequent passed ball made it possible to bring the winning run home.

It seems to me the defensive liability Ward creates outweighed any offensive advantage he gained as a batter.

[cummings2]

Glad to hear you're sticking around! :D That's the important side, that we all keep enjoying this... until we don't 8-)

Obviously your points are well taken and valid, hard to argue against them.

Hope your luck improves and that HAL makes up for this one with a nice championship for you.

C2