2009 STRATOMATIC DEFENSIVE RATINGS ARE HERE...

[maligned]

It sounds like you have a pretty balanced view of things.
I just hate to throw the baby out with the bathwater on things like this, as some on both sides of the 'old school' vs. 'stat geeks' discussions tend to do. The stat geeks have to realize, as you contend, that not everything is ultimately quantifiable all the time because baseball has a huge psychological element and happens situationally--not in a vacuum. And the old school has to realize that I don't have to have been a boxer to be able to put together data that shows that fighters that land a higher percentage of punches also knock out a higher percentage of opponents (or have to have been a shortstop to analyze video that shows that Brendan Ryan saves way more runs over time than Ryan Theriot does).
Anyway, it sounds like we're on the same page...forgive me for rambling. :)

[Rant]

CF is pretty interesting.

Did Kemp really improve that much? A 1 in center seems a stretch to me in the few games I saw him, maybe he's a 2. Bourn stepped it up after being a 2 for a bunch of years. Victorino dropped. He didn't seem as strong this past year in center after being one of the best defenders in the game the year before, but I 'm surprised SOM dropped him back.

No way Utley deserves a 1 at 2b. His arm is above average, but his range is probably 2/3.

[maligned]

Utley has above average range, is ultra-efficient in positioning and angles to the ball, and is one of the most effective double play turns in baseball. He is #1 or #2 in every respected video/stat-based second basemen ranking available for the past 4 seasons. A couple of those years, he was number 1 by far.
Somehow he got 'a step slow' attached to his scouting report years ago and hasn't been able to shake it while quietly becoming a phenomenal fielder.

[BrentB]

I enjoyed the give and take on the question of rating fielding skills. One further question about the current measuring systems just how many variables do they take into account? Some possibilities I was curious about.

1.) The stadium ( sight lines & variable conditions of the field)
2) Your pitcher. Is he able to pitch to the scouting report and thus the defensive positioning?
3) Weather
4) Time of day/sun position
etc....
It seems to be a huge undertaking to process all the variables and is still a perfect example of the human element being valuable.

[AeroDave10]

[quote:24c7208f67="BrentB"]
1.) The stadium ( sight lines & variable conditions of the field)
2) Your pitcher. Is he able to pitch to the scouting report and thus the defensive positioning?
3) Weather
4) Time of day/sun position
etc....[/quote:24c7208f67]

It seems as though you're trying to look at the ability to make one particular play at a given moment rather than a player's general skills. While factor #1 may play slightly into fielding, I don't think it will be that significant. The only I thing may be he may feel more comfortable at his home park rather than another park. #2, #3, and #4 all even out over time. No one plays behind the same pitcher all the time, plays in good or bad weather all the time, or plays at the exact same time of day all the time.

[gbrookes]

I am a BIG fan of Utley, fielding wise (and otherwise).

One of my all-time favourite baseball plays was in last year's world series vs. Tampa Bay. Utley fielded a tricky groundball when there was a runner at third. He had to make a quick play to get the runner at first. But, in mid motion, he noticed the runner going from third to home. He held on to the ball (a "checked throw"), and quickly adjusted and threw home. He got the runner at home!

I love heads up baseball plays like that! (BTW, it was Utley who supplied the early RBI's in the game 2 win against the Yankees in this year's world series)!

Utley for President!!
:)

Geoff Brookes

[gbrookes]

..the Yankees this year!

:)

Geoff Brookes

[MARCPELLETIER]

What about Ellsbury? Statistically, he had one of the WORST defensive season in 2009 among ALL fielders (let alone cfs).

Depending on the measure, he cost Boston btw 15 and 20 runs (of which, his bad arm only cost 1-2 runs).

Yet, he was polled AL's best defensive player???

At first, I thought this could be a case where Ellsbury cheated because of his arm, costing Boston's runs because of a shrinkage of range...

But then again, Boston's move to give Cameroun a two-year contract tells me that the Boston management doesn't think Ellsbury's problem at cf is simply a matter of adjustments...

What's your take?

Perhaps this guy is right: http://www.iayork.com/MysteryRays/2009/12/19/baseball-predictive-value-of-uzr/

[visick]

Good point marcus.

Cameron can play left or right though. My guess is he''l go to left to replace Bay.

We do tend to see only the highlights of spectacular catches. Ellsbury did have a few of them. But his #'s were not the best.

In contrast to him is a guy like Jim Edmonds in his prime. He was a 1 defender with a - arm. All I saw from him were spectacular catches. Now did he really get bad jumps on balls and had to make catches look harder than they were? I really don't know.

[AeroDave10]

[quote:19be5ea74a="socalchiro"]
In contrast to him is a guy like Jim Edmonds in his prime. He was a 1 defender with a - arm. All I saw from him were spectacular catches. Now did he really get bad jumps on balls and had to make catches look harder than they were? I really don't know.[/quote:19be5ea74a]

I checked the UZR ratings on fangraphs.com. They go back to 2002. Every year from then on, Edmonds was always in the middle of the pack, saving only about 1 or 2 runs. Here's the CFers from 2002.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=0&season=2002&month=0