Many years ago, I played a lot of Strat-O-Matic football, the board game. There was a lot to love about the game, but some things bothered me. I'm wondering if changes have been made since I played....
1. Key running back. With today's common 1-back running games, it seems keying a running back is too easy. When I played, the risk was the other runner would get the ball. How does keying work with a 1-back set (or a set with a FB who can't really run)? My concern is if you are going to call a run defense, there is no reason not to go ahead and key.
2. Double-team 60 percent of receivers. When I played, you could double-team the split end and flanker with linebackers, and one other receiver with the free safety. If successfully double-teamed, chance of a sack was very high no matter how good your pass blocking was. This ability seemed overpowered.
3. Pass rush result. "Pass rush" was a common result when passing. If the defense was blitzing three linebackers, it was an automatic sack. Teams that rarely got sacked during the real life season were especially vulnerable to blitzes since their quarterbacks had the most "pass rush" results on their cards.
4. QBs could never see a blitz coming or notice their primary receiver was double-teamed (and therefore throw to someone else). When you called a particular pass play to someone, that pass play and receiver were etched in stone.
5. Fumbles only occurred on running plays and special teams. (I think they now at least occur on sacks?)
Again, these were my concerns when I played the game 30 years ago. What has changed for the better?
stratomatic football
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• Page 3 of 3 • 1, 2, 3
Not-so-fond memories
by coyote303 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:36 am
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by pkwmati » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:39 am
Hey Coyote, hows everything going?
Regarding the football board game. I first started playing in 1984 and from what I understand there were a lot of changes implemented in 1982 making the pre-82 cards not as compatible with the new rules. I really don't what those change all are, but from your post I get some ideas and I'll try to explain how they are now.
With keying the RB, you are guessing wrong against and in today's NFL with the QB cards you'd get chewed alive through the air - enough to keep you honest even against a team that is run first. Also remember that half of the results are going to come from the Defensive Cards.
Regarding the pass rush whether double teaming WRs or just in general, the "Pass Rush" result on the QB card has been replaced with a black 6-sided die with 2 sides that have "D" which means a sack could occur. Then you use blitzing LBs, and the ratings of the DL and OL (another die roll determines which ones).
Regarding not seeing the blitz or double coverage, the PC game has a "dump-off rule" in which in certain situations you may have called a Long Pass to your SE, but will end up being a Flat Pass to RB. I'm not sure how to make that rule translate to the board game.
But I think the game is great and does generate relatively accurate results.
Regarding the football board game. I first started playing in 1984 and from what I understand there were a lot of changes implemented in 1982 making the pre-82 cards not as compatible with the new rules. I really don't what those change all are, but from your post I get some ideas and I'll try to explain how they are now.
With keying the RB, you are guessing wrong against and in today's NFL with the QB cards you'd get chewed alive through the air - enough to keep you honest even against a team that is run first. Also remember that half of the results are going to come from the Defensive Cards.
Regarding the pass rush whether double teaming WRs or just in general, the "Pass Rush" result on the QB card has been replaced with a black 6-sided die with 2 sides that have "D" which means a sack could occur. Then you use blitzing LBs, and the ratings of the DL and OL (another die roll determines which ones).
Regarding not seeing the blitz or double coverage, the PC game has a "dump-off rule" in which in certain situations you may have called a Long Pass to your SE, but will end up being a Flat Pass to RB. I'm not sure how to make that rule translate to the board game.
But I think the game is great and does generate relatively accurate results.
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by ROBERTLATORRE » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:01 pm
[quote:2664d503cf="PM770"]
But I think the game is great and does generate relatively accurate results.[/quote:2664d503cf]
Baseball is easier to attain statistical accuracy with. With Football, the total results over a season are much less, and the variables affecting a play are much higher. If your looking for total statistical Football accuracy, it will be hard to find.
A Hitter will get 600 ABs, that will allow a gaming system to get to an accurate result, A SP 600 BFs....
In the football games, so much depends on coaching decisions, it is harder. Also, factor in the number of targets for, let's say a WR, defensive coverage, offensive play calling etc can really skew the results. For example, I simulated a season with the '71 Cowboys and Bob Hayes, and I never targeted him on short passes. He had a great season, his Yards/catch and TD's were very high and his catches were low. I didn't make ridiculous play calls, just used him to stretch the field and left the flat and short passes to Ditka and Garrison and the medium routes to Alworth.
Ended up 12-2 instead of 11-3, but the statistical accuracy was appropriately off.
Baseball has so many less variables.
Apples and Oranges.
But I think the game is great and does generate relatively accurate results.[/quote:2664d503cf]
Baseball is easier to attain statistical accuracy with. With Football, the total results over a season are much less, and the variables affecting a play are much higher. If your looking for total statistical Football accuracy, it will be hard to find.
A Hitter will get 600 ABs, that will allow a gaming system to get to an accurate result, A SP 600 BFs....
In the football games, so much depends on coaching decisions, it is harder. Also, factor in the number of targets for, let's say a WR, defensive coverage, offensive play calling etc can really skew the results. For example, I simulated a season with the '71 Cowboys and Bob Hayes, and I never targeted him on short passes. He had a great season, his Yards/catch and TD's were very high and his catches were low. I didn't make ridiculous play calls, just used him to stretch the field and left the flat and short passes to Ditka and Garrison and the medium routes to Alworth.
Ended up 12-2 instead of 11-3, but the statistical accuracy was appropriately off.
Baseball has so many less variables.
Apples and Oranges.
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by Mr Baseball World » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:33 am
I never played the football when it was online. Maybe it wasn't an accurate reflection of the game but just seems as though stats were not accurate.........receivers catching 20+ balls and 300 plus yards in a game (maybe even 400 or 500).......every team with a running back above 2000 yards rushing.....a number going above 3000 maybe even 4000.....but I could be misremembering :oops:
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by dwightskino211 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:31 am
I played the Basketball game 84,85,86??
A year the Celtics, Sixers, Lakers were really good. The best players got hot just like in Baseball. You knew Bird would hit his shots. Get it low to Kareem and let him shoot it!! Moses was a beast down low, good shot or fouled almost every time. Trying to get the ball to your great players was the trick.
It was a great game once you got used to the flow and card decks etc.
A year the Celtics, Sixers, Lakers were really good. The best players got hot just like in Baseball. You knew Bird would hit his shots. Get it low to Kareem and let him shoot it!! Moses was a beast down low, good shot or fouled almost every time. Trying to get the ball to your great players was the trick.
It was a great game once you got used to the flow and card decks etc.
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Re: Not-so-fond memories
by Ninersphan » Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:12 am
[quote:2a60dbde53="coyote303"]Many years ago, I played a lot of Strat-O-Matic football, the board game. There was a lot to love about the game, but some things bothered me. I'm wondering if changes have been made since I played....
1. Key running back. With today's common 1-back running games, it seems keying a running back is too easy. When I played, the risk was the other runner would get the ball. How does keying work with a 1-back set (or a set with a FB who can't really run)? My concern is if you are going to call a run defense, there is no reason not to go ahead and key.
I also beleive that the rule has been updted since I last purchased a rule book and you may have to move linbackers into a specific run zone to key a back. but I could be wrong on this aspect.
2. Double-team 60 percent of receivers. When I played, you could double-team the split end and flanker with linebackers, and one other receiver with the free safety. If successfully double-teamed, chance of a sack was very high no matter how good your pass blocking was. This ability seemed overpowered.
3. Pass rush result. "Pass rush" was a common result when passing. If the defense was blitzing three linebackers, it was an automatic sack. Teams that rarely got sacked during the real life season were especially vulnerable to blitzes since their quarterbacks had the most "pass rush" results on their cards.
4. QBs could never see a blitz coming or notice their primary receiver was double-teamed (and therefore throw to someone else). When you called a particular pass play to someone, that pass play and receiver were etched in stone.
5. Fumbles only occurred on running plays and special teams. (I think they now at least occur on sacks?)
Again, these were my concerns when I played the game 30 years ago. What has changed for the better?[/quote:2a60dbde53]
Rules have been updated, at least the advanced rules, and/or you may have been applying them incorrectly. Some of the rules are not in the rule book but on the roster sheet sent out with every game. Now I haven't purchased a complete board game in about 15 years but here's some notes on your concerns...
1. There is no keying in a one back formation, at least in a two TE, two WR 1 RB formation. This rule change is found in the miscellenaous rules printed on the rosters sheet and superceeds the one in the printed rule book.
2. I'm not sure how you interpreted this rule, but double teaming in no way effects sack chances, in fact the double teaming you present here can be beaten easliy by throwing flat passes to the vacated zones and/or running the ball, even on 3rd and long. This defense also actually [b:2a60dbde53]reduces[/b:2a60dbde53] sack chances, as the LB's are not in the blitz zones needed to help the pass rush. This defense is only designed to be effective in situations where the defensive player knows the offense has to throw into the short or long pass zones. It has the following detremental effects to defense:
A. Linebackers do not move into the zone like the free safety does thus it does not chnage readings on the defensive card from 3 man to 4 man in zone on flat passes or 1 man to 2 man on long passes.
B. If the reading of RECIEVER is indicated on the defense cards for a receiver thrown to DBL teamed by a linebacker, you read the RIGHT column, not the DBL teamed column on the receivere's card.
C. If the pass is thrown to the vacated flat pass column ( even to a double teamed receiver) refer to the WRONG comlum on the QB's card, not the Right or DBL teamed column.
D. If the LB's ability rating is needed in a pass defense check vs. any other offensive player other than the one he is DBL teaming, the pass is automatcally completeled
E. There are also penalties to the run defense reflected in the boxes on certain results on the Defense cards and you would lose run containment in 3rd down and more then 5 yards to go situations.
3. Pass rush is not determined by the cards at all, but by the "X" die. The only time there is an automatic sack is if the free safety is blitzing on a short or long pass play and the D comes up on the X die. Otherwise the if the D comes up on a short or long pass attempt, it first has to be determined if the indicated pass rusher was indeed rushing the passer
(the defense has to have called "PASS" and if a Linebacker is the indiacted pass rusher he must be blitzing and not in his flat pass zone) Even then, a second roll is needed to determine if the O-lineman made his block. The pass block rating and Pass rush rating are checked on the Super Advanced pass rush chart and the result from the dice roll is checked against the chart to see if the sack occurs or if the block is made. Blitzing linbackers do increase the chances of a sack, but it is still not automatic. ( Well unless your O-lineman has a 0 pass block rating :wink: )
4. This is still true, once the play is selected on the play caller, however, if the defense elects to saftey blitz, he must annonce that [b:2a60dbde53]prior[/b:2a60dbde53] to the offense selecting his play, so the offensive player can adjust. Also the offense can always call a time out prior to revealing their play if the defensive player calls a defense the offenseive player knows will stop his play.
5. Fumbles can occur on sacks and pass receptions as well as on the RB's and Special teams. All teams have a QB/WR fumble number from 1-6 assigned to the bottom of their team rating card. A QB checks for a fumble on any sack result. The receiver checks for a fumble on any completed pass that was the result of a RECIEVER check off either the defensive or QB card.
The procedure is as follows, for sacks:
Once it has been determined that there has been a sack, all 4 dice are rolled, the pair of red dice indicate the yardage lost 2-12 yards, if the X-die results in an X then there is a possible fumble. If the white die is a number equal or lower than the QB/Reciever fumble rating, then a fumble has occured. In other words if a given qb has a funble rating of 2, the X die must come up with an X showing and the white die must have a 1 or 2 for a fumble to occur. If a fumble occurs, a seperate roll must be used to detemine which team recovers the ball.
Reciever fumbles are handled similarly.
If a RECEIVER result is indicated on either the defense cards or the QB passing card, roll all 4 dice again to check the result. If the 2 red dice indicate a completed pass the pass is complete for the stated yardage, but if the X die comes up with an X result, there is a possible fumble determined just like the QB sack fumble. If the white die is equal to or lower than the QB/WR fumble rating, then the WR has fumbled the ball after a completed pass, and a seperate roll is made to determine who recovers the fumble.
Now these are all super advanced rules, I've never played the simpler version of the game because this was the version I was taught.
1. Key running back. With today's common 1-back running games, it seems keying a running back is too easy. When I played, the risk was the other runner would get the ball. How does keying work with a 1-back set (or a set with a FB who can't really run)? My concern is if you are going to call a run defense, there is no reason not to go ahead and key.
I also beleive that the rule has been updted since I last purchased a rule book and you may have to move linbackers into a specific run zone to key a back. but I could be wrong on this aspect.
2. Double-team 60 percent of receivers. When I played, you could double-team the split end and flanker with linebackers, and one other receiver with the free safety. If successfully double-teamed, chance of a sack was very high no matter how good your pass blocking was. This ability seemed overpowered.
3. Pass rush result. "Pass rush" was a common result when passing. If the defense was blitzing three linebackers, it was an automatic sack. Teams that rarely got sacked during the real life season were especially vulnerable to blitzes since their quarterbacks had the most "pass rush" results on their cards.
4. QBs could never see a blitz coming or notice their primary receiver was double-teamed (and therefore throw to someone else). When you called a particular pass play to someone, that pass play and receiver were etched in stone.
5. Fumbles only occurred on running plays and special teams. (I think they now at least occur on sacks?)
Again, these were my concerns when I played the game 30 years ago. What has changed for the better?[/quote:2a60dbde53]
Rules have been updated, at least the advanced rules, and/or you may have been applying them incorrectly. Some of the rules are not in the rule book but on the roster sheet sent out with every game. Now I haven't purchased a complete board game in about 15 years but here's some notes on your concerns...
1. There is no keying in a one back formation, at least in a two TE, two WR 1 RB formation. This rule change is found in the miscellenaous rules printed on the rosters sheet and superceeds the one in the printed rule book.
2. I'm not sure how you interpreted this rule, but double teaming in no way effects sack chances, in fact the double teaming you present here can be beaten easliy by throwing flat passes to the vacated zones and/or running the ball, even on 3rd and long. This defense also actually [b:2a60dbde53]reduces[/b:2a60dbde53] sack chances, as the LB's are not in the blitz zones needed to help the pass rush. This defense is only designed to be effective in situations where the defensive player knows the offense has to throw into the short or long pass zones. It has the following detremental effects to defense:
A. Linebackers do not move into the zone like the free safety does thus it does not chnage readings on the defensive card from 3 man to 4 man in zone on flat passes or 1 man to 2 man on long passes.
B. If the reading of RECIEVER is indicated on the defense cards for a receiver thrown to DBL teamed by a linebacker, you read the RIGHT column, not the DBL teamed column on the receivere's card.
C. If the pass is thrown to the vacated flat pass column ( even to a double teamed receiver) refer to the WRONG comlum on the QB's card, not the Right or DBL teamed column.
D. If the LB's ability rating is needed in a pass defense check vs. any other offensive player other than the one he is DBL teaming, the pass is automatcally completeled
E. There are also penalties to the run defense reflected in the boxes on certain results on the Defense cards and you would lose run containment in 3rd down and more then 5 yards to go situations.
3. Pass rush is not determined by the cards at all, but by the "X" die. The only time there is an automatic sack is if the free safety is blitzing on a short or long pass play and the D comes up on the X die. Otherwise the if the D comes up on a short or long pass attempt, it first has to be determined if the indicated pass rusher was indeed rushing the passer
(the defense has to have called "PASS" and if a Linebacker is the indiacted pass rusher he must be blitzing and not in his flat pass zone) Even then, a second roll is needed to determine if the O-lineman made his block. The pass block rating and Pass rush rating are checked on the Super Advanced pass rush chart and the result from the dice roll is checked against the chart to see if the sack occurs or if the block is made. Blitzing linbackers do increase the chances of a sack, but it is still not automatic. ( Well unless your O-lineman has a 0 pass block rating :wink: )
4. This is still true, once the play is selected on the play caller, however, if the defense elects to saftey blitz, he must annonce that [b:2a60dbde53]prior[/b:2a60dbde53] to the offense selecting his play, so the offensive player can adjust. Also the offense can always call a time out prior to revealing their play if the defensive player calls a defense the offenseive player knows will stop his play.
5. Fumbles can occur on sacks and pass receptions as well as on the RB's and Special teams. All teams have a QB/WR fumble number from 1-6 assigned to the bottom of their team rating card. A QB checks for a fumble on any sack result. The receiver checks for a fumble on any completed pass that was the result of a RECIEVER check off either the defensive or QB card.
The procedure is as follows, for sacks:
Once it has been determined that there has been a sack, all 4 dice are rolled, the pair of red dice indicate the yardage lost 2-12 yards, if the X-die results in an X then there is a possible fumble. If the white die is a number equal or lower than the QB/Reciever fumble rating, then a fumble has occured. In other words if a given qb has a funble rating of 2, the X die must come up with an X showing and the white die must have a 1 or 2 for a fumble to occur. If a fumble occurs, a seperate roll must be used to detemine which team recovers the ball.
Reciever fumbles are handled similarly.
If a RECEIVER result is indicated on either the defense cards or the QB passing card, roll all 4 dice again to check the result. If the 2 red dice indicate a completed pass the pass is complete for the stated yardage, but if the X die comes up with an X result, there is a possible fumble determined just like the QB sack fumble. If the white die is equal to or lower than the QB/WR fumble rating, then the WR has fumbled the ball after a completed pass, and a seperate roll is made to determine who recovers the fumble.
Now these are all super advanced rules, I've never played the simpler version of the game because this was the version I was taught.
Last edited by Ninersphan on Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by gbrookes » Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:58 am
Hey BED, I am a big hockey fan, and I like the strat-o-matic hockey as well.
I have also played strat football and strat basketball, and I like ALL of the games a lot. My brother and I played a whole NFL season - all teams and all games and playoffs - manually, with statistics. Yeah, we were younger and had more time back then.
If strat could come out with some kind of online gaming system for these, like strat baseball, I would be all for it. I know that the live game is a huge improvement, but the reality for me is that I don't really have the time for that anymore. Not even close to possible for me. But I would challenge strat to try to make it work with strategy settings, similar to online baseball. If baseball can get the bullpen to work with strategy settings, football should be a breeze, IMO. "All you need to do" (roll eyes) is have the ability to set probabilities for various play calls on offense and defense.
The hockey game would be a piece of cake to automate online. The strategy settings in hockey would be very straightforward compared to baseball or football.
I have played the basketball game as well, and enjoy it. Again, if you can get HAL to do baseball bullpen (with strategy settings) as well as HAL does it now, really, anything should be possible.
The best sports strategy game in the world, any game, any time. Strat-o-Matic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
I have also played strat football and strat basketball, and I like ALL of the games a lot. My brother and I played a whole NFL season - all teams and all games and playoffs - manually, with statistics. Yeah, we were younger and had more time back then.
If strat could come out with some kind of online gaming system for these, like strat baseball, I would be all for it. I know that the live game is a huge improvement, but the reality for me is that I don't really have the time for that anymore. Not even close to possible for me. But I would challenge strat to try to make it work with strategy settings, similar to online baseball. If baseball can get the bullpen to work with strategy settings, football should be a breeze, IMO. "All you need to do" (roll eyes) is have the ability to set probabilities for various play calls on offense and defense.
The hockey game would be a piece of cake to automate online. The strategy settings in hockey would be very straightforward compared to baseball or football.
I have played the basketball game as well, and enjoy it. Again, if you can get HAL to do baseball bullpen (with strategy settings) as well as HAL does it now, really, anything should be possible.
The best sports strategy game in the world, any game, any time. Strat-o-Matic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
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