Bullpen Problem?
39 posts
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by macnole » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:37 pm
:)
I will say I think Bernie may become less inclined to respond freely/rapidly if he thinks every one of his messages will be brought out for public analysis.
Maybe not...maybe just the way I think, but I know I would choose my words more carefully, and therefore respond more slowly and maybe in less detail.
Good luck on the RP usage though--I've given up...just going with sp studs and rp specialists--inefficient, but less hassle. Maybe will experiment.
I will say I think Bernie may become less inclined to respond freely/rapidly if he thinks every one of his messages will be brought out for public analysis.
Maybe not...maybe just the way I think, but I know I would choose my words more carefully, and therefore respond more slowly and maybe in less detail.
Good luck on the RP usage though--I've given up...just going with sp studs and rp specialists--inefficient, but less hassle. Maybe will experiment.
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by nevdully's » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:40 pm
Lets count the ways where our own top know-it-all might be wrong.
First he says you do need to list a staff or HAL will be confused....Says who, Bernie? Says where, in the rules?
If my 3 game starters are set and I list Adams in a relief slot that should be priority "unless" limited by some type of fatigue from either a previous start or relief usage. HAL should'nt be confused.
Charlie would never select mop-up because he "thinks" its intended for a pitcher who's never gonna come in unless the team situation is hopeless...I thought it was when a team was "up or down" by 5 runs or more, hardly a hopeless situation to be up by 5 runs.
But the last highlighted statement is what troubles me most....I've had plenty of disagreements with plenty of people here. But i can honestly say if Charlie said that to my face, I'd punch him in his face.
First he says you do need to list a staff or HAL will be confused....Says who, Bernie? Says where, in the rules?
If my 3 game starters are set and I list Adams in a relief slot that should be priority "unless" limited by some type of fatigue from either a previous start or relief usage. HAL should'nt be confused.
Charlie would never select mop-up because he "thinks" its intended for a pitcher who's never gonna come in unless the team situation is hopeless...I thought it was when a team was "up or down" by 5 runs or more, hardly a hopeless situation to be up by 5 runs.
But the last highlighted statement is what troubles me most....I've had plenty of disagreements with plenty of people here. But i can honestly say if Charlie said that to my face, I'd punch him in his face.
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by gkhd11a » Tue May 01, 2012 6:54 am
Nev,
This is what I see:
1) The super reliever role is unrealistic in it's own right. the typical team is trying to get about 900-960 innings from their starters about 5-6 innings of work. Then they want to get a reliever to use 400 of the remaining 480 innings of relief work. To me that is taking something that is never done in baseball and transforming the pitching. However, in general everyone here, including you have said if you can get the settings to do that it is ok. So I now run my relief staff that way as well.
2) Babe Adams doesn't get you the result you would like to see and as a result you want the program changed (or fixed as you call it) to provide you the answer you would like rather than investigating and working how to achieve that on your own. I listed the ways I accomplish it, with one of your 400 teams it would be a very easy scenario to test out. You have very specific ideas on how you would like the game engine to work, and you would like someone to either explain how to get your teams to work that way or change the programming to meet your specifications. And further if the staff doesn't meet your concern your view is their job is in peril. If that is not a definition of a required consultant I don't know what is. We have and are lucky to have exactly one person working on this game. NO, the game is not perfect but it does irk me when the top players continue to post private messages in order to prove how horrible this game is and that it will not last.
This is what I see:
1) The super reliever role is unrealistic in it's own right. the typical team is trying to get about 900-960 innings from their starters about 5-6 innings of work. Then they want to get a reliever to use 400 of the remaining 480 innings of relief work. To me that is taking something that is never done in baseball and transforming the pitching. However, in general everyone here, including you have said if you can get the settings to do that it is ok. So I now run my relief staff that way as well.
2) Babe Adams doesn't get you the result you would like to see and as a result you want the program changed (or fixed as you call it) to provide you the answer you would like rather than investigating and working how to achieve that on your own. I listed the ways I accomplish it, with one of your 400 teams it would be a very easy scenario to test out. You have very specific ideas on how you would like the game engine to work, and you would like someone to either explain how to get your teams to work that way or change the programming to meet your specifications. And further if the staff doesn't meet your concern your view is their job is in peril. If that is not a definition of a required consultant I don't know what is. We have and are lucky to have exactly one person working on this game. NO, the game is not perfect but it does irk me when the top players continue to post private messages in order to prove how horrible this game is and that it will not last.
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Adams
by chuckwonup » Tue May 01, 2012 8:34 am
Nev I didnt read all the comments but I have used Adams and got 400 innings out of em, one time 44 wins. The only thing I did not do is put him in the mopup role which it seems to me could be what is causing you the problem.
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by nevdully's » Tue May 01, 2012 9:37 am
Boy Charlie there is sooo much inaccuracy and twisting of my words and exaggerations in your post its scary, and a really nice insinuation also. Honestly its almost all wrong one way or another...Hey but you did say its how "you see it" so now let me tell you how I see it.
[quote:cd03baaa91]The super reliever role is unrealistic in it's own right.[/quote:cd03baaa91]
Completely irrelevant to whether or not it works correctly.
[quote:cd03baaa91]Babe Adams doesn't get you the result you would like to see and as a result you want the program changed (or fixed as you call it) to provide you the answer you would like rather than investigating and working how to achieve that on your own.[/quote:cd03baaa91]
So "if" you want Cobb to bat clean up and you follow the rules and instructions to get this done, by setting your batting order accordingly and following the rules of a legal line up, but instead HAL gets confused because HAL doesn't think Cobb should bat 4th, so he bats him lead off instead...Shouldn't you, anybody, everybody, including Bernie want this brought to his attention?
[quote:cd03baaa91]to provide you the answer you would like rather than investigating and working how to achieve that on your own. I listed the ways I accomplish it, with one of your 400 teams it would be a very easy scenario to test out[/quote:cd03baaa91]
Ahh assumption, exaggeration and sarcasm all in one.
So you and I and the community should spend more of our time and our money investigating why this "possible" flaw in the programming, sometimes occurs. Really?
Yes Charlie it "might" be a flaw...or a "bug" in the system...I could list a dozen examples of such. Wouldn't it make sense to first ask Bernie?
And yes Charlie I do some investigating, you should investigate the hopeless situation where mop up is applied. Watch one of your teams have a 7 run [b:cd03baaa91]lead[/b:cd03baaa91] only to have some mop-up nickel rp come in and give up your lead in less than an inning or two. Maybe that has never happened to you since you talk much more than you play, but it does happen.
[quote:cd03baaa91]You have very specific ideas on how you would like the game engine to work, and you would like someone to either explain how to get your teams to work that way or change the programming to meet your specifications.[/quote:cd03baaa91]
I had "NO" specific ideas on how I wanted the game engine work, I was trying to follow the little instructions we had way back when....I did plenty of investigating and trial and error...We have more instruction and explanation from Bernie now and I try to follow that. and yes when things do not work as explained to me I'd like to ask why? Again am I misunderstanding something? Could it be a bug? It seems to always work with a pure rp so why not a sp/rp? It even works quite often with an sp/rp but why sometimes not at all?
And the answers I sometimes get, when I get an answer, are sometimes easily understood, but sometimes puzzling....you see I've gotten some answers like "I really don't know, Nev"...Well when I spend my money and the programmer doesn't know why some stuff happens...I'm concerned.
[quote:cd03baaa91]And further if the staff doesn't meet your concern your view is their job is in peril.[/quote:cd03baaa91]
Wow Charlie really? So you think this is just about "one" concern, "one" time, and just specific to me?
[quote:cd03baaa91]If that is not a definition of a required consultant I don't know what is.[/quote:cd03baaa91]
Well I guess we have different opinions here, very different. I play much much more than I talk. I've been here what 10 years. I've had lunch with Bernie once, talked to him on the phone maybe 3 times and have messaged him for answers maybe [b:cd03baaa91]2 dozen times....over ten years[/b:cd03baaa91]. [b:cd03baaa91]Sixteen hundred teams! Ten Years![/b:cd03baaa91] I'm not looking to sleep my way to the top of ATG, there is no insider trading going on here. :roll:
[quote:cd03baaa91]the game is not perfect but it does irk me when the top players continue to post private messages in order to prove how horrible this game is and that it will not last. [/quote:cd03baaa91]
OMG!
CONTINUE??? Continue to post private messages? how many in Ten years, two ???
"to prove how horrible this game is?????"
Really? By wanting it to work as per the rules and Bernie's explanations? I ALWAYS have given credit where credit is due, but the game has gotten much better and that wouldn't have happened to the degree it did without pointing out "possible" flaws and asking/demanding accountability too.
This game has improved Quite a bit in largest part to to the community trying to better it... We've asked nicely, pushed and prodded, begged, and scream for improvements of which over the past ten years my posts are towards the top of the list of community members doing all this asking.
I don't want Bernie to leave, and his/this upside is HUGE imo.
I don't want to game to leave.
I do feel/fear that SOM will want a tighter ship than TSN (does anyone disagree with that?) and that if Bernie doesn't be the good, involved, accountable Bernie that he's been more of lately, he/it won't last...
[quote:cd03baaa91]The super reliever role is unrealistic in it's own right.[/quote:cd03baaa91]
Completely irrelevant to whether or not it works correctly.
[quote:cd03baaa91]Babe Adams doesn't get you the result you would like to see and as a result you want the program changed (or fixed as you call it) to provide you the answer you would like rather than investigating and working how to achieve that on your own.[/quote:cd03baaa91]
So "if" you want Cobb to bat clean up and you follow the rules and instructions to get this done, by setting your batting order accordingly and following the rules of a legal line up, but instead HAL gets confused because HAL doesn't think Cobb should bat 4th, so he bats him lead off instead...Shouldn't you, anybody, everybody, including Bernie want this brought to his attention?
[quote:cd03baaa91]to provide you the answer you would like rather than investigating and working how to achieve that on your own. I listed the ways I accomplish it, with one of your 400 teams it would be a very easy scenario to test out[/quote:cd03baaa91]
Ahh assumption, exaggeration and sarcasm all in one.
So you and I and the community should spend more of our time and our money investigating why this "possible" flaw in the programming, sometimes occurs. Really?
Yes Charlie it "might" be a flaw...or a "bug" in the system...I could list a dozen examples of such. Wouldn't it make sense to first ask Bernie?
And yes Charlie I do some investigating, you should investigate the hopeless situation where mop up is applied. Watch one of your teams have a 7 run [b:cd03baaa91]lead[/b:cd03baaa91] only to have some mop-up nickel rp come in and give up your lead in less than an inning or two. Maybe that has never happened to you since you talk much more than you play, but it does happen.
[quote:cd03baaa91]You have very specific ideas on how you would like the game engine to work, and you would like someone to either explain how to get your teams to work that way or change the programming to meet your specifications.[/quote:cd03baaa91]
I had "NO" specific ideas on how I wanted the game engine work, I was trying to follow the little instructions we had way back when....I did plenty of investigating and trial and error...We have more instruction and explanation from Bernie now and I try to follow that. and yes when things do not work as explained to me I'd like to ask why? Again am I misunderstanding something? Could it be a bug? It seems to always work with a pure rp so why not a sp/rp? It even works quite often with an sp/rp but why sometimes not at all?
And the answers I sometimes get, when I get an answer, are sometimes easily understood, but sometimes puzzling....you see I've gotten some answers like "I really don't know, Nev"...Well when I spend my money and the programmer doesn't know why some stuff happens...I'm concerned.
[quote:cd03baaa91]And further if the staff doesn't meet your concern your view is their job is in peril.[/quote:cd03baaa91]
Wow Charlie really? So you think this is just about "one" concern, "one" time, and just specific to me?
[quote:cd03baaa91]If that is not a definition of a required consultant I don't know what is.[/quote:cd03baaa91]
Well I guess we have different opinions here, very different. I play much much more than I talk. I've been here what 10 years. I've had lunch with Bernie once, talked to him on the phone maybe 3 times and have messaged him for answers maybe [b:cd03baaa91]2 dozen times....over ten years[/b:cd03baaa91]. [b:cd03baaa91]Sixteen hundred teams! Ten Years![/b:cd03baaa91] I'm not looking to sleep my way to the top of ATG, there is no insider trading going on here. :roll:
[quote:cd03baaa91]the game is not perfect but it does irk me when the top players continue to post private messages in order to prove how horrible this game is and that it will not last. [/quote:cd03baaa91]
OMG!
CONTINUE??? Continue to post private messages? how many in Ten years, two ???
"to prove how horrible this game is?????"
Really? By wanting it to work as per the rules and Bernie's explanations? I ALWAYS have given credit where credit is due, but the game has gotten much better and that wouldn't have happened to the degree it did without pointing out "possible" flaws and asking/demanding accountability too.
This game has improved Quite a bit in largest part to to the community trying to better it... We've asked nicely, pushed and prodded, begged, and scream for improvements of which over the past ten years my posts are towards the top of the list of community members doing all this asking.
I don't want Bernie to leave, and his/this upside is HUGE imo.
I don't want to game to leave.
I do feel/fear that SOM will want a tighter ship than TSN (does anyone disagree with that?) and that if Bernie doesn't be the good, involved, accountable Bernie that he's been more of lately, he/it won't last...
- nevdully's
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by Salty » Tue May 01, 2012 2:19 pm
My thought is that we are trying to bring the game as close to the control one has over the board game as possible.
Meaning:
1) being able to designate who will play/relieve in almost every situation with fatigue being the mitigating factor
2) having consistency in the way Hal is operating your team
3) understanding how Hal operates in the first place (factors that affect play)
Im fairly certain that most of us realize that the on-line game has other factors besides straight roll of the dice = outcome that we find in the board game.
Im not knocking anyone in particular here- but Im wondering if we all agree that this is what we are shooting for?
It is for me.
Meaning:
1) being able to designate who will play/relieve in almost every situation with fatigue being the mitigating factor
2) having consistency in the way Hal is operating your team
3) understanding how Hal operates in the first place (factors that affect play)
Im fairly certain that most of us realize that the on-line game has other factors besides straight roll of the dice = outcome that we find in the board game.
Im not knocking anyone in particular here- but Im wondering if we all agree that this is what we are shooting for?
It is for me.
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- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm
by Badjam » Tue May 01, 2012 4:28 pm
Some good pointers by gkhd11a to get Adams max innings but I don't agree with his mop up approach. If the goal is to get max innings out of Adams then I guess that works. If your goal is to win as many games as possible then I would also list him as mop up. If the game is 8-2 after two innings, you can get maybe seven innings out of Adams instead of having Hal hold him back just in case the game gets close enough for the closer and tied situations to maybe happen. Adams is the best mop up guy available to stop the bleeding to give your team a chance to get back in the game.
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by Valen » Tue May 01, 2012 8:41 pm
[quote:812de0cea0]Charlie would never select mop-up because he "thinks" its intended for a pitcher who's never gonna come in unless the team situation is hopeless...I thought it was when a team was "up or down" by 5 runs or more, hardly a hopeless situation to be up by 5 runs. [/quote:812de0cea0]
I think of mopup as more of a guy who burns innings when down by a lot. If I am up by a lot see that as a let the guy pitching keep cruising, not a time for giving mopup guy some innings. I would hope the mopup role is only used to burn innings when behind and most likely game out of reach so my best pitchers are not wasted in a certain losing cause.
Therefore I would never set a Babe Adams quality guy as mopup. Ahead 8-2 is not mopup time. Perhaps middle reliever time if a reliever is called for. But honestly if I am up 8-2 that means my starter is doing a good job and removal is not called for.
I do not believe strat-o-matic or Bernie has any obligation to make the super reliever strategy effective. If you can pull it off more power to you. But having said that agree with what I believe is the primary issue of this thread, if Adams is never being used as a starter and is used only as a reliever then how HAL uses him should be no different that if he was rated as RP only.
I think of mopup as more of a guy who burns innings when down by a lot. If I am up by a lot see that as a let the guy pitching keep cruising, not a time for giving mopup guy some innings. I would hope the mopup role is only used to burn innings when behind and most likely game out of reach so my best pitchers are not wasted in a certain losing cause.
Therefore I would never set a Babe Adams quality guy as mopup. Ahead 8-2 is not mopup time. Perhaps middle reliever time if a reliever is called for. But honestly if I am up 8-2 that means my starter is doing a good job and removal is not called for.
I do not believe strat-o-matic or Bernie has any obligation to make the super reliever strategy effective. If you can pull it off more power to you. But having said that agree with what I believe is the primary issue of this thread, if Adams is never being used as a starter and is used only as a reliever then how HAL uses him should be no different that if he was rated as RP only.
- Valen
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